The Hutch Podcast

Statecraft, Spying, and the Moral Dilemmas of Modern Espionage with James Olson

Episode Summary

James Olson received his law degree from the University of Iowa. He served for over thirty years in the clandestine service of the Central Intelligence Agency, mostly overseas conducting clandestine operations behind enemy lines. In addition to several foreign assignments, he held the title of Chief of Counterintelligence at CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia. Jim is also a professor at Texas A&M's Bush School of Government and Public Service, teaching classes on intelligence, counterintelligence, national security, counter-terrorism, and international crisis management. Jim has been awarded the Intelligence Medal of Merit, the Distinguished Career Intelligence Medal, the Donovan Award, and several distinguished service citations. On top of that he is the author of 'Fair Play: The Moral Dilemmas of Spying' and 'To Catch a Spy: The Art Of Counterintelligence'. His books are commonly used within the recruiting and training curriculum of the CIA today.

Episode Notes

Check out James Olson's books: 

Fair Play: The Moral Dilemmas of Spying 

To Catch A Spy: The Art of Counterintelligence 

In this episode with James Olson, we discuss: 

1. Personal Journey and Public Service:

• James' Background and how he was contacted by the CIA 
• How did Jim get discovered by the CIA?

2. Historical Roots of Intelligence: 

• What are the historical roots of intelligence and its uses in history?

3. College Campuses and Higher Education in Espionage Operations: 

• How are the PRC and MSS infiltrating our higher education institutions in the US? 
• How do we combat the intrusion of the Chinese government in education?
• Why should college students care about these operations? 

4. Modern Intelligence Gathering and Operations: 

• What is the current state of US intelligence operations? What more should we be doing? 
• What is the difference between the Chinese Intelligence and US intelligence operations? 
• Will HUMINT always be essential to the mission? 
• What should the relationship between the public and intelligence agencies look like moving forward? 
• Is modern statecraft an Infinite or Finite game? 

5. Fair Play: Moral Dilemmas of Spying 

• Deciphering what is moral and immoral in spying. 
• Is intelligence a war weapon? Does it come under St. Thomas Aquinas' Just War Theory? 
• Spying in historical philosophies and arguments. 
• How did you ground yourself in your faith while undercover?